What happens when you build the right idea a decade too early? Most founders would call that a failure and move on. Sandra Trittin built the exact same business twice — ten years apart — and this time the world finally caught up to the idea.

Sandra co-founded a distributed energy management startup in 2012 and watched the market fail to catch up. Now, as co-founder of Bebop, she's building the orchestration layer that lets utilities integrate distributed energy resources — solar, storage, and EVs — at grid scale.

She names three things that had to change before her original thesis could work:

Sandra tells a story that illustrates why no amount of market timing replaces field experience. An IT colleague pushed a platform upgrade on a Friday evening at her first startup. By Saturday morning, she had 150 calls from customers with cold showers and furious families — all with her personal phone number.

Sandra is candid about the trap of being a repeat founder in the same space. The second time around, she says, you carry pre-assumptions from the first attempt that can blind you as easily as inexperience did the first time.

She named two concrete warning signs she watches for to check whether product-market fit is actually holding:

Sandra (00:00) If the sales is really getting tough in terms of it's lengthier than normal, and not just for one case but for several cases, then we know that either the customer need has changed, or the value proposition is not sharp enough.

Roland Siebelink — Host (00:50) Hello everyone, welcome to Breakthrough AI Operators, the show where we talk with founders who have made AI structurally native to how their company works. Not just tool adoption, not just productivity wins, but actual operating model breakthroughs. My guest today tried this exact business once before over a decade ago, and it kind of worked. The idea wasn't wrong, but the world wasn't ready yet — the assets weren't connected and nobody needed the grid managed this precisely yet. Precise management of demand on the power grid, that's the business that they do. Two things changed at once, and she went all in a second time. New co-founders, but the same thesis. With that, everyone, meet my guest Sandra Trittin, the co-founder of Beebop.ai. Welcome to the show, Sandra!

Sandra (01:44) Hello, Roland, and hello everyone, and thank you for having me today.

Roland Siebelink — Host (01:49) Sandra, we've been exploring this topic for quite a while now, and what really struck me is that you built this exact business once before in 2012 and the market wasn't quite ready yet. But what actually changed to make now the moment for Beebop to be successful?

Sandra (02:08) Yes. Actually, what has changed from a market perspective are three elements. The first element is that electrification, and especially the distributed electrification in homes and with commercial customers, went further on — meaning people started to build solar systems, storage systems, driving EV cars, putting heat pumps into their homes or air conditionings. And all of a sudden, the demand of electricity has increased quite a lot, but also the profile of how this demand appears during the day. Whereas in the past, everyone was coming home in the evening from work and then putting lights on, starting to cook, etc. — this still happens today, but if the customer has a solar system and a storage at home, there will be no consumption needed from the electricity grid. Instead, it comes from the battery.

(02:48) The second point is that all of these new electrical devices cause quite some issues because the demand profile changes, as explained, and you are not just a consumer anymore — all of a sudden you become a producer. And this is something totally new to the energy structure and to the infrastructure of the power system. And the third and last point is that assets became much more accessible. Beforehand in 2012, it was still possible to control hot water tanks or electrical convectors, but they were 30 or 40 years old and far from being controllable or accessible. Nowadays, whatever you buy is internet connected. You have an app, you have cloud accessibility, something that you can monitor and take control. And these are the three elements which have majorly changed in this time, luckily.

Roland Siebelink — Host (04:07) Good — because as Mike Maples of one of the major VC funds here says, you need an inflection point for your idea to actually make sense at that point in time. And you just named three inflection points all happening at the same time. The demand must be exploding for you right now.

Sandra (04:30) Yes, demand is exploding, but at the same time, so is competition. And with the new technology capabilities — also of AI, for example — everyone has the feeling of being able to create an algorithm to control electrical devices in your home. And I think we have so many intelligent people out there who are capable of doing that. I think there's always the real-life experience which makes the difference then. And probably a small anecdote on that, if you allow.

Roland Siebelink — Host (05:08) Please.

Sandra (05:08) In the first startup, one of the IT colleagues decided to make an upgrade on the platform on a Friday evening. And I had been responsible for the first 250 customers as customer support — they all had my private phone number. Saturday morning, seven o'clock, I had roughly 150 calls on my phone, all complaining and saying: Sandra, we all have a cold shower because our heat pump is not working anymore, and we all have cold. The family is angry. It's Saturday morning. Can you please do something?

(05:59) That's an experience you only want to have once, because I was the best customer in the chocolate shop on Monday morning, sending out 150 "please excuse" cards — together with the IT engineer. It's a really simple example, but it shows that technology can do a lot, but experience and always the thought about the customer and what's going on there is just as important.

Roland Siebelink — Host (06:20) You already mentioned that your customers are mostly the power grid operators — utilities — but also to some degree the manufacturers. Those are both customers that typically exhibit long sales cycles. Is it on the basis of your experience and your long tenure in this field that you compete with newer providers?

Sandra (06:50) Yes. There's always competition, because there's always someone who promises to do it better, more efficient, cheaper, whatever. You always face someone. What we have seen so far is that the customers — especially the utilities but also the manufacturers — are really valuing the support that we give at Beebop, also about the implementation of the technology.

(07:21) Because it always sounds fancy — you just connect to the cloud of a manufacturer and then all of a sudden you have access to millions of Tesla cars or something. But if you look into the detail: where does the customer give permission? How does it work? And the permission might look different if you're sitting in Belgium or in New York — the terms and conditions, etc. What is the right point in time to offer you that service so that you also have the right awareness? It's not difficult. It's just a step-by-step approach that needs to be worked through. And there our experience from the past is quite helpful.

(07:46) Just imagine you're a manufacturer of solar inverters. All your focus is normally on: how can I produce my inverter more efficiently? How can I sell more? How can I sell better? And all of a sudden you get approached by utilities saying: we would like to connect to the customers who bought your inverters. There is a software layer to take external control. If you present that for the first time to an installer who has to bring that value proposition to their customer, they're like, no, for sure not. They are fully in the stream of: I need to sell hardware. And for them, every second sentence they need to add on site with the customer to convince them about a sale is already a sentence too much.

(09:04) You need to incorporate the technology and the service in a way that it fits the mindset of the installer and also fits as a value proposition to the customer in the end.

Roland Siebelink — Host (09:16) This is often something that founders struggle with when they are in a market characterized by an inflection point like this. It's: how do I actually reach those customers? How do I do my go-to-market? How do I get access to especially more conservative-type customers that might not even know they have a problem here? How have you guys solved that?

Sandra (09:41) We have been a bit lucky that over the last 10 to 15 years, overall the industry went through quite some education already on that point. That was really helpful because back in 2011, 2012, you really had to explain everything from scratch, and you had to simplify it in a way that people were not losing interest after three minutes. Because if they hear "external control over my really expensive storage system," it's like: ooh, probably better not. I'm worried that it breaks down.

Roland Siebelink — Host (10:23) Yes, or that they lose their job over it, right?

Sandra (10:26) Exactly. That was one part that we had to learn. And the second thing is to always revisit the product market fit. We actually just did it in a meeting just before this recording with our management team, where we were asking ourselves: does the product really fit into the markets that we are serving? Is it differentiating enough, or are we just so much in love with our own technology — which happens also quite a bit — that we go in parallel to the customer needs and not really matching them? There's always something to fine tune.

Roland Siebelink — Host (11:18) Maybe we can double click on that a little bit more, because many founders that I work with convince themselves they have product market fit, and from an outside perspective it might be a little bit more doubtful. What are the criteria that you apply internally to really challenge yourselves whether you have true product market fit and where it can be improved?

Sandra (11:46) First of all, once we enter into a new market, we have certain criteria that market has to match, and we check if we find our ideal customer profile. Then we have a look — for example, we check if there is a lot of competition showing up at the same place. If we hear the same names being dropped again by all the targets that we are talking to, we get a bit more cautious because then there's potentially not enough differentiation.

(12:21) That's one thing. The second thing is if the sales is really getting tough — in terms of it's lengthier than normal, and not just for one case but for several cases — then we know that either the customer need has changed, or the value proposition is not sharp enough, or it's just about how we communicate the value proposition. Because sometimes, and this is also what I see at other companies, you have everything you need — it's much more about how you present it.

Roland Siebelink — Host (12:56) You mentioned that you're also on the board of several startup companies. When you look from a board perspective at how other founders do it, what do you think is the most common problem? Is it a communication problem, a value proposition problem, or a mismatch with the type of customers they sell to? What do you see the most?

Sandra (13:22) I think it's that founders love their product and their technology — and that also counts for myself — and it's really difficult to challenge it on a daily or weekly or monthly basis and ask yourself: is it really the right thing we are building for that market? In the end, you get blind after some time about your own product.

Roland Siebelink — Host (13:51) In Silicon Valley, they often say that founders who come from within an industry have more difficulty building a disruptive startup than founders who come from outside, because they have more trouble thinking outside the box. Is that something you've seen as well?

Sandra (14:15) Let's say it's more challenging. Looking back at my own history — the first time I came out of telecoms. Would I have known what I was starting off with, I'm not even sure if I would have started. And I think the two other co-founders were in the same situation. On the second time, you already have a feeling on what's coming and what's coming next, but you also bring your own pre-assumptions to it.

(14:49) Which means you fall into that trap of thinking: okay, we are at this point, and this is going to happen. But probably it would be totally different if you look at it from the outside perspective or from a totally different industry. And I think this is always the value that people bring from other industries, from other sectors, with a totally new and fresh mind.

Roland Siebelink — Host (15:08) You did mention you sit on the board of other scaling companies. And I think you mentioned that what gets you to the first stage will not necessarily get you to the next stage. Without mentioning any names, what are some of the signs that you look at to see whether founders are scaling with the business, growing with the business — or if maybe they are too much stuck in the past and not scaling enough?

Sandra (15:39) I think what I would have changed on the first startup would have been to have different people scaling the company than building the company. And also — I love building new business models, new products. I can get really creative. I can also scale, but it's more structured, hard work. I'm probably not the optimal resource in that spot.

Roland Siebelink — Host (16:16) So you think of yourself more as a zero to one than a one to ten?

Sandra (16:21) A bit in that direction. I can go on the path from one to ten, but then on specific jobs — and I know other founders who are really on this, bringing it from the one to ten and being streamlined with operations under control, and then it's just about growth, growth, growth.

Roland Siebelink — Host (16:47) How have you divided up the roles between you and your current co-founders?

Sandra (16:53) We are three, so if you have three people there needs to always be one who has the last word. And that's Jan-Willem Rombouts — he's the initial founder and the CEO. Then we have Bert Claessens and he's CTO and CPO. I'm responsible for the partnerships and then also for the growth in terms of sales, etc.

Roland Siebelink — Host (17:19) Okay, so you're the commercial side, basically.

Sandra (17:21) Exactly.

Roland Siebelink — Host (17:23) Okay, very good. Of course, you do have to have somebody that has the last word — I agree with that. The worst is when it's eternal paralysis because nobody can drive through a decision. But do you feel like you as co-founders have a certain role to play that goes beyond just your functional role? How do you separate the role of a co-founder versus the role of your head of commercial or the head of technology?

Sandra (17:55) Just behind these functionality roles, there's also responsibility. There is a responsibility towards our colleagues and our employees that we have to take. There's also responsibility towards the investors — in terms of growth, in terms of product market fit, for example, and the stories we are selling and also fulfilling what we are selling. Overall, it's much more that stakeholder management and also ensuring that we are going and growing in the right direction, and questioning that also regularly.

(18:30) We need to have respect for the team, for each other, between each other — and it's the responsibility which goes beyond the functions.

Roland Siebelink — Host (18:54) Do you feel like it's important in a startup to have things like core values or a core purpose really hashed out, and that people really live those values?

Sandra (19:07) I'm fully convinced of that. I think you need at least to have a mission, because this is why people join you — because they are convinced. This is why they go the extra mile with you. This is also why they trust you. And this comes also then to the core values. Because if you don't have these core values at least defined and explained, people are unsure in which frame they can move and work. Because I think nowadays we give each other a lot of freedom — where to work and when to work and how to work. But you need to have something which is the underlying element for each of us, which puts us together as one company besides the name and besides some contractual engagement. That's the mission and the values. It's the glue in between.

Roland Siebelink — Host (19:59) Exactly. Based on that, what is the kind of person that is the perfect Beebop employee, and what is the kind of person you would never hire at Beebop?

Sandra (20:16) That's a challenging question. For Beebop, let's start with the person that we would hire. It's the person who shows commitment, who brings a lot of tenacity, brings respect for the others, and is also open to go one step beyond the normal and to question what people normally think is normal, whatever that might be. And lastly, it's a person who can have a bit of fun and enjoy being on the mission that we are on. I think these are the core elements that we are looking for.

(21:02) Now, nobody is perfect. And if we would find just people who match all these criteria, it would be amazing. The less people are committed to these values or to the mission, the lower the probability that they would work with us in the long run.

Roland Siebelink — Host (21:33) Sandra, I always like to go a little bit personal in the last couple of minutes. Where did you grow up? What is the story of Sandra behind the co-founder of Beebop? What were you like as a child, as a teenager, and was it always clear you were gonna be a founder?

Sandra (21:51) I would love to say yes, for sure. I grew up in the middle of nowhere in Germany — and it's literally the middle of nowhere, because if you look at the map, you look in the center where there is more green than anything else. This is where I'm from, pretty close to the former border to eastern Germany. For us as kids, it was always clear that if you want to have something going on in your life, also in your hobby life, you need to create it yourself.

(22:25) And we did that quite a lot with our friends. I have been in so many associations during my childhood — the swimming association, the music association. I have been doing gymnastic wheel, sport gymnastics, skiing. Quite a bit, always busy. But I also took over quite early responsibility. Because with these local associations, it's natural — you join the association when you are five or six, and then while you're growing older, you take more and more responsibility for the younger ones who come after you, until at one point you take over the full group management and everything. You get a special education for that. Until you leave then, because you go for studying or you work somewhere different.

Roland Siebelink — Host (23:19) So it's like natural learning of mentorship and teaching and management in a way?

Sandra (23:25) Yes, and it's always different — it's different if you teach a class of swimming than if you teach a class in gymnastic wheel, for example.

(23:36) This is one element. I went then for studies in Stuttgart. It was hybrid studies where you had a traineeship with one specific company. I was lucky to end up in consulting at that point in time. Then you work three months and then you study three months and it takes turns until you're done with your degree. And out of that, I was lucky to help on a project in Switzerland, in Zurich.

(24:08) After some time, Swisscom — which was the company we were consulting at — asked if I could not come for half a year to help implement a certain methodology for process optimization locally. And so I went. Everyone was like, wow, you're going into a foreign country. And to be honest, it's true — it's quite different to Germany, even though you might not think so from a US perspective. And out of that, I stayed at Swisscom for more than 10 years in totally different roles. Did a lot of optimization, did a lot in infrastructure optimization — building the landlines, really going through the holes in the ground and thinking about how to optimize the process. Did my MBA in between and ended up in strategy.

(25:07) And while I was working in strategy, I had first contact with smart meter connection. That was totally new at that point in time — that a smart meter would need to have a SIM card. That was the product we were developing in the end. And then our CEO got a bit of pressure from the Swiss government and came and said: guys, we need to do something in energy. We said, yeah, well, we do the smart metering. And it was like: no, something disruptive, which brings Switzerland away from nuclear power.

(25:48) And this was the start of Tico Energy solution. I started there from scratch, almost like a second time, because the only thing I knew was my German plug doesn't fit into the Swiss socket. But I was not aware of why that was — it just doesn't fit. And so this was the starting point for myself getting into the electricity industry.

Roland Siebelink — Host (26:00) Very cool. Was there at any point in your career somebody who really inspired you to get the courage to start a company by yourself? Somebody that you consider an inspiration or a mentor?

Sandra (26:16) Yes, actually it was the CEO of Swisscom at that time, Carsten Schloter — who unfortunately has since passed away. But he was really an inspirational person who always said: if we see a possibility, if there is a market, if you see a customer fit or a customer need, then let's go for it. Because the future will not look as today — the future will be different, so let's help to shape that future instead of just being passive and waiting for what is going to come.

(26:47) And this was really always impressive — also how he supported it, getting it through the management team at Swisscom, getting it through the board where no one was aware of electricity. Everyone was just thinking in data packages and IoT connection. He was really a person who inspired a lot.

Roland Siebelink — Host (27:20) An unfortunate ending indeed for Carsten Schloter. Sandra, where can people get more information about Beebop, and what should they download or look out for in terms of an asset about the company?

Sandra (27:41) Yes. On one side, we have the website, which is beebop.ai. There is also a blog section — so if you're interested in exploring the electricity or power systems of the world, this is a really interesting blog where you can have everything from customer and business model focus down to really geeky algorithm explanations into the far technical details. I think it's great to have a bit of a broadening focus on that one.

(28:08) The second is follow us on LinkedIn. We regularly bring updates, also with all the different utilities we work with, and we share specific case studies — which are normally the most interesting part on how it looks in reality.

Roland Siebelink — Host (28:31) Okay, very good. And for those that want an introduction to Sandra and they know me already but don't know Sandra yet, I'm happy to always provide the introduction through LinkedIn as well. Sandra, this has been an amazing interview. Thank you so much for coming on Breakthrough AI Operators. I think you're gonna be having a huge impact in this world, so I'm very happy to have had you on the show.